genivi-projects Digest, Vol 14, Issue 75

Jeremiah Foster jeremiah.foster at pelagicore.com
Sat Jun 4 05:26:07 EDT 2016


On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 10:38 PM, Joel Hoffmann <joel.hoffmann at renesas.com>
wrote:

> Great speech from Agustin, has there been any progress on this issue with
> Qt since May 25th?
>

There has been more discussion. There will be more at the board meeting
this June.

>
> Apologies for top posting, I'm a marketing guy, one mentioned that needs
> to weigh in.
>

:-)

>
> My real question is why is auto still afraid of GPL v3, or is it more
> about paying fees to Qt?
>

I don't think the problem is the purchase of commercial licenses, that is
quite straight forward for most, if not all, companies. The issue is that
GENIVI wants to produce software that goes into cars. This includes the
image created by the GDP. If it has GPLv3 anywhere in the final image, then
car makers have to provide installation instructions as well as the
encryption key for the entire image. For safety reasons the encryption key
cannot be released. Therefor no software that requires encryption key
release, as GPLv3 software does, can be installed in the image.


> It seems there may be many issues to resolve before GDP can become a
> "development" platform beyond a derivative for demos.


I think GENIVI in fact can produce production ready software.


> How does GDP compete with Android-N being adopted by a major share of the
> worlds automakers?


The GDP is highly customizable, it runs on a broad range of automotive
production hardware with a broad range of HMI options as well as
optimization for automotive specific use cases like fastboot. It supports
the use of Android on top of GENIVI images (Android Auto has already been
integrated onto GDP) as well as other third party software. The Open
Connectivity Foundation also recently demonstrated their software running
on the GDP. In short, I think GENIVI is a real platform where Android is
merely an interface to the platform. I don't think that Android, in any of
its many, many forms, offers real competition to GENIVI software, rather it
is a complement -- it is one way to create an interface to the platform.


> What about the maturing AGL distro?


The AGL distro is obviously hugely important and carefully followed by
GENIVI. GENIVI has no interest in reinventing the wheel so looks to AGL to
see if there is software that fulfills GENIVI's needs as well as
collaboration points on existing software. Software design decisions may be
different in the two projects and that is likely healthy.


> Fragmentation is GENIVI's biggest enemy.
>

I don't think so. Of course fragmentation is a problem when you have
multiple, robust, commodity software components. When you're in that
situation there is really no point in having fourteen different web servers
for example, its better to consolidate on a standard to save effort. But
part of the distinct advantage of GNU/Linux is the fact that it is highly
customizable. This allows different hardware manufacturers to produce
software that takes advantage of their particular hardware features and for
differentiation in the user interface.

Looking from the outside I think that it might appear that there are two
separate automotive software stacks, but that is actually not the case.
They both share a common base, namely the Linux kernel, they both use the
same init system, they both use Wayland, Qt runs well on both, Yocto is
used for both. There is a very large shared code base. AGL then goes a bit
deeper into the safety-critical domain, at least that is the stated
intention, GENIVI doesn't work in that domain. GENIVI's focus is IVI so
naturally it will have a different scope but that does not mean that there
is significant fragmentation per se, I think it is the right amount of
difference actually.

Its a difficult balance at times to find the equilibrium between
customization and standardization, but I think currently that balance is
pretty good and healthy.

Cheers,

Jeremiah


>
> Sent from my phone, please accept my apologies for any typos and brevity.
>

Sent from my computer, with spell checking on. :-D


>
> Joel Hoffmann
> Open Platform Marketing Manager
> Renesas Electronics
> Joel.Hoffmann at Renesas.com
> Text to +1 (248) 345-7947
>
> > On May 25, 2016, at 6:09 AM, "genivi-projects-request at lists.genivi.org"
> <genivi-projects-request at lists.genivi.org> wrote:
> >
> > Send genivi-projects mailing list submissions to
> >   genivi-projects at lists.genivi.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >   https://lists.genivi.org/mailman/listinfo/genivi-projects
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >   genivi-projects-request at lists.genivi.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >   genivi-projects-owner at lists.genivi.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of genivi-projects digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >  1. Re: Qt version on GDP 10 (Agustin Benito Bethencourt)
> >  2. Error when trying to run the SOTA server (Kumar-Mayernik, Nisha)
> >  3. Re: Error when trying to run the SOTA server (Arthur Taylor)
> >  4. Re: Error when trying to run the SOTA server
> >     (Kumar-Mayernik, Nisha)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 14:21:52 +0200
> > From: Agustin Benito Bethencourt <agustin.benito at codethink.co.uk>
> > To: "genivi-projects at lists.genivi.org"
> >   <genivi-projects at lists.genivi.org>
> > Subject: Re: Qt version on GDP 10
> > Message-ID: <574598E0.4090303 at codethink.co.uk>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > long mail, apologies.
> >
> >>> On 25/05/16 01:19, James Thomas wrote:
> >>> On 23/05/16 01:36, Agustin Benito Bethencourt wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> we are starting to focus on the next GDP version this week.
> >>>
> >>> Which version of Qt should we include in GDP 10 ?
> >>>
> >>> Changhyeok opened a ticket[1] to track this discussion. There is a
> previous
> >>> discussion[2] in this list that touched the topic.
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://at.projects.genivi.org/jira/browse/GDP-220
> >>> [2]
> http://lists.genivi.org/pipermail/genivi-projects/2016-May/002229.html
> >>>
> >>> Best Regards
> >>
> >> Can we target 5.7 [1]?
> >>
> >> We'd have upstream support for ivi-shell in QtWayland this way
> >
> > ++ Personal note
> >
> > First let me say that the Qt licensing is not managed by the Qt Company
> > but by the Free Qt Foundation. 50% of that foundation is "owned" by KDE.
> >
> > Funny enough I was part of the KDE e.V Board during some of the key
> > moments of the negotiation of the new license model for Qt with Digia. I
> > have a strong opinions on Qt license model, as you can imagine.
> >
> > I avoided the proposal of Qt 5.7 on purpose to save lots of explanations
> > and discussions at this point although it was a matter of time so....
> > here I come.
> >
> > ++ Context
> >
> > The work GDP delivery team will do the coming weeks is to upgrade GDP to
> > meta-ivi10 which means Qt 5.5.1. In 3-4 weeks we will be able to define
> > the roadmap for the next version, which includes a very important
> decision:
> >
> > -- Do we release GDP 10 or after some basic integration, we work to
> > catch up with meta-ivi and go directly for GDP 11?--
> >
> > This decision needs as input effort estimations, requests
> > prioritization, how to face the integration of the components that are
> > on the pipeline...
> >
> > ++ Scenarios
> >
> > There are two scenarios related with Qt and GDP (so GENIVI) that I see.
> > I am advancing them without all the required input described above so
> > please have this in consideration.
> >
> > 1.- The decision is to release GDP-10.
> >
> > Although having the new GDP 11 version cooking already, probably we
> > would arrive to the 15th AMM with meta-ivi 11 and a solid GDP-10.
> >
> > I think we should consider to go for Qt 5.6 instead of the default Qt
> > 5.5.1, since this version will be very popular among this industry for
> > long. It will depend on the effort involved though and the expertise
> > available but the idea can be to extend the life cycle of Qt 5.6 tot to
> > two GDP releases.
> >
> > 2.- If we decide to go for GDP 11, skipping the release of GDP 10, like
> > we did with GDP-ivi8, it would mean the we ship Qt 5.6. The effort would
> > be focused in arriving to the 15th AMM having meta-ivi 11 and GDP 11 in
> > shape.
> >
> > +++ When will we face the change towards a (L)GPLv3 version of Qt
> >
> > In the first scenario, we would face an upgrade to a (L)GPLv3 based
> > version of Qt late this year or early 2017, depending on the decision
> > for GDP to skip or not a meta-ivi 11. So the decision might be taken
> > during 15th AMM.
> >
> > In the second scenario though, we would face the challenge right after
> > the 15th AMM.
> >
> > So the decision should be taken before the 15th AMM. The ideal situation
> > would be to link it to the decision of going for GDP 11, in a few weeks
> >
> > ++ My opinion about the topic
> >
> > In short, I believe discussing if Qt 5.7, so (L)GPLv3 in GDP, yes or no
> > is pointless.
> >
> > And I say this because I am convinced that it will be unsustainable from
> > the technical AND financial point of view to become maintainers of an
> > older version of Qt in newer versions of a distribution, in this case
> > poky, and at the same time, intend to have several releases per year of
> > a "product" that target developers.
> >
> > 1.- ... older version of Qt in a newer version of a distribution
> >
> > GDP is not a distribution, it is a derivative. GENIVI chose that model
> > and moving out of it requires investment.
> >
> > To backport (like we did with weston 1.9 in GDP-ivi9) is expensive but
> > is a one shot effort. To forward port, which would be required if we
> > stay in a specific Qt version, is the "road to hell" for a non
> > commercial project.
> >
> > 2.- ... ... intend to have several releases per year...
> >
> > We would require a financial commitment and experts to carry on this
> > effort. And this is the kind of work that becomes harder, so more
> > expensive, over time.
> >
> > In summary, it goes against everything that represents the Open Source
> > development and delivery model. Even the most conservatives and
> > experienced distributions, like RHEL and SLE, works hard on reducing the
> > impact of moving through this "road of hell" in every update.
> >
> > 3.- ... of a product that targets developers.
> >
> > Let me start by saying that I do not see any problem from the commercial
> > point of view in staying some time on Qt 5.6. But our target are
> > developers and innovation.
> >
> > Even if we explain the situation, our explanations are understood and
> > assumed and, due to GDP increasing energy, we perceive little impact
> > right after taking the decision of staying in a fixed version of Qt
> > (best scenario), over time the interest on GDP will become lower among
> > what today seems GDP best support, the Qt ecosystem.
> >
> > I believe, these three goals are unachievable at the same time even for
> > organization with more resources and experience than we have. It is a
> > "empty road of hell" in non-commercial environments.
> >
> > ++ My Conclusion
> >
> > 1.- The real decision here is how we ship key components that, in terms
> > of license, might represent a risk for OEMs business models. It should
> > not be about shipping them or not, specially in an industry that is
> > changing rapidly towards Open Source adoption but not in a uniform way.
> >
> > I would not put myself in front of the train without finding out first
> > what happened to those who did it before.
> >
> > There are several strategies we can follow that saves adoption costs of
> > GDP related with those key components. There will be cases though in
> > which we will provide to GENIVI members zero options or having options,
> > none of them are compatible with our current goals, so we will not offer
> > them on regular basis.
> >
> > 2.- Having discussions about GDPv3 yes or no remind me so much to the
> > GPLv2 days that I admit it is hard for me to go through it again.
> >
> > I see GENIVI also as a forum to educate and advise, do you all?
> >
> > Discussing this topic only at one level (technical, legal, business,
> > strategy) makes it very hard to reach to realistic conclusions. Mixing
> > them all in the right way is harder and cannot obviously be limited to
> > this channel.
> >
> > I presented a paper about GDP for QtCon in September. My personal hope
> > is that, by then, we have a position we can all feel comfortable with so
> > I can defend it and promote it, specially in the second scenario.
> >
> > Since 15th AMM is taking place the same days and city that the Qt World
> > Summit, it will be a great opportunity to reinforce GENIVI position as
> > industry leader in Open Source by promoting conversations that provide
> > the whole picture from both sides if the situation has not been solved
> > before.
> >
> > Best Regards
> >
> > --
> > Agustin Benito Bethencourt
> > Principal Consultant - FOSS at Codethink
> > agustin.benito at codethink.co.uk
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 05:27:10 -0700
> > From: "Kumar-Mayernik, Nisha" <nkumarm1 at jaguarlandrover.com>
> > To: Arthur Taylor <arthur at advancedtelematic.com>
> > Cc: genivi-projects at lists.genivi.org
> > Subject: Error when trying to run the SOTA server
> > Message-ID:
> >   <CANLsUs74kMvvmKzg_JiE9sHK+C1jCrXcN2=hss-x0dm1h2WB4A at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Hi Arthur,
> >
> > I tried to set up a SOTA server locally on my dev machine. I am getting
> > this error:
> >
> > ProvisionException: Unable to provision, see the following errors:
> >
> > 1) Error injecting constructor, java.lang.IllegalArgumentException:
> > requirement failed: Key store file certs/client.jks does not exist!
> > at org.genivi.webserver.Authentication.LdapAuth.<init>(LdapAuth.scala:35)
> > at org.genivi.webserver.Authentication.LdapAuth.class(LdapAuth.scala:35)
> > while locating org.genivi.webserver.Authentication.LdapAuth
> >   for parameter 2 at
> > org.genivi.webserver.controllers.Application.<init>(Application.scala:29)
> > while locating org.genivi.webserver.controllers.Application
> >   for parameter 1 at router.Routes.<init>(Routes.scala:35)
> > while locating router.Routes
> > while locating play.api.inject.RoutesProvider
> > while locating play.api.routing.Router
> >
> > 1 error
> >
> > Any ideas? I am using the docs here:
> > http://genivi.github.io/rvi_sota_server/doc/building-installing.html. I
> am
> > running this on Ubuntu 16.04.
> >
> > Thanks
> > *Nisha Kumar-Mayernik*
> > Software Developer
> >
> >
> >
> > *Jaguar Land Rover, 1419 NW 14th Ave, Portland, Oregon, 97209, USA*
> > *jaguar.com <http://jaguar.com/>  |  landrover.com <
> http://landrover.com/>*
> >
> > Business Details:
> > Jaguar Land Rover Limited, Abbey Road, Whitley, Coventry CV3 4LF, UK
> > Registered in England Number: 1672070
> >
> > This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential information for a
> > specific individual and purpose.  The information is private and
> privileged
> > and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is
> addressed.
> > If you are not the intended recipient, please e-mail us immediately.  We
> > apologize for any inconvenience caused but you are hereby notified that
> any
> > disclosure, copying or distribution or the taking of any action in
> reliance
> > on the information contained herein is strictly prohibited.
> >
> > This e-mail does not constitute an order for goods or services unless
> > accompanied by an official purchase order.
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> http://lists.genivi.org/pipermail/genivi-projects/attachments/20160525/fef4e241/attachment-0001.html
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:01:37 +0200
> > From: Arthur Taylor <arthur at advancedtelematic.com>
> > To: "Kumar-Mayernik, Nisha" <nkumarm1 at jaguarlandrover.com>
> > Cc: genivi-projects at lists.genivi.org
> > Subject: Re: Error when trying to run the SOTA server
> > Message-ID: <5745A231.6080206 at advancedtelematic.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > Hi Nisha,
> >
> > Thanks for the report. We're investigating. We think it's related to the
> > recent changes we made to add LDAP support.
> >
> > We're hoping to get a resolution or update today - will let you know as
> > soon as we have something.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Arthur
> >
> >> On 25/05/16 14:27, Kumar-Mayernik, Nisha wrote:
> >> Hi Arthur,
> >>
> >> I tried to set up a SOTA server locally on my dev machine. I am
> >> getting this error:
> >>
> >> ProvisionException: Unable to provision, see the following errors:
> >>
> >> 1) Error injecting constructor, java.lang.IllegalArgumentException:
> >> requirement failed: Key store file certs/client.jks does not exist!
> >> at
> >> org.genivi.webserver.Authentication.LdapAuth.<init>(LdapAuth.scala:35)
> >> at org.genivi.webserver.Authentication.LdapAuth.class(LdapAuth.scala:35)
> >> while locating org.genivi.webserver.Authentication.LdapAuth
> >>   for parameter 2 at
> >>
> org.genivi.webserver.controllers.Application.<init>(Application.scala:29)
> >> while locating org.genivi.webserver.controllers.Application
> >>   for parameter 1 at router.Routes.<init>(Routes.scala:35)
> >> while locating router.Routes
> >> while locating play.api.inject.RoutesProvider
> >> while locating play.api.routing.Router
> >>
> >> 1 error
> >>
> >> Any ideas? I am using the docs here:
> >> http://genivi.github.io/rvi_sota_server/doc/building-installing.html.
> >> I am running this on Ubuntu 16.04.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> *Nisha Kumar-Mayernik*
> >> Software Developer
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *Jaguar Land Rover, 1419 NW 14th Ave, Portland, Oregon, 97209, USA*
> >> *jaguar.com <http://jaguar.com/>  |  landrover.com
> >> <http://landrover.com/>*
> >>
> >> Business Details:
> >> Jaguar Land Rover Limited, Abbey Road, Whitley, Coventry CV3 4LF, UK
> >> Registered in England Number: 1672070
> >>
> >> This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential information for a
> >> specific individual and purpose.  The information is private and
> >> privileged and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom
> >> it is addressed.  If you are not the intended recipient, please e-mail
> >> us immediately.  We apologize for any inconvenience caused but you are
> >> hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or distribution or the
> >> taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein
> >> is strictly prohibited.
> >>
> >> This e-mail does not constitute an order for goods or services unless
> >> accompanied by an official purchase order.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Arthur Taylor, ATS Advanced Telematic Systems GmbH
> > Kantstrasse 162, 10623 Berlin
> > Managing Directors: Dirk P?schl, Armin G. Schmidt
> > Register Court: HRB 151501 B, Amtsgericht Charlottenburg
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 06:09:26 -0700
> > From: "Kumar-Mayernik, Nisha" <nkumarm1 at jaguarlandrover.com>
> > To: Arthur Taylor <arthur at advancedtelematic.com>
> > Cc: genivi-projects at lists.genivi.org
> > Subject: Re: Error when trying to run the SOTA server
> > Message-ID:
> >   <CANLsUs5ud95h3q6b92huccOir0jckbfw6t6O0_F=Svyxw-H_5Q at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Arthur, I appreciate the quick response. Thanks!
> >
> > *Nisha Kumar-Mayernik*
> > Software Developer
> >
> >
> >
> > *Jaguar Land Rover, 1419 NW 14th Ave, Portland, Oregon, 97209, USA*
> > *jaguar.com <http://jaguar.com/>  |  landrover.com <
> http://landrover.com/>*
> >
> > Business Details:
> > Jaguar Land Rover Limited, Abbey Road, Whitley, Coventry CV3 4LF, UK
> > Registered in England Number: 1672070
> >
> > This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential information for a
> > specific individual and purpose.  The information is private and
> privileged
> > and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is
> addressed.
> > If you are not the intended recipient, please e-mail us immediately.  We
> > apologize for any inconvenience caused but you are hereby notified that
> any
> > disclosure, copying or distribution or the taking of any action in
> reliance
> > on the information contained herein is strictly prohibited.
> >
> > This e-mail does not constitute an order for goods or services unless
> > accompanied by an official purchase order.
> >
> >> On 25 May 2016 at 06:01, Arthur Taylor <arthur at advancedtelematic.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Nisha,
> >>
> >> Thanks for the report. We're investigating. We think it's related to the
> >> recent changes we made to add LDAP support.
> >>
> >> We're hoping to get a resolution or update today - will let you know as
> >> soon as we have something.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Arthur
> >>
> >>> On 25/05/16 14:27, Kumar-Mayernik, Nisha wrote:
> >>> Hi Arthur,
> >>>
> >>> I tried to set up a SOTA server locally on my dev machine. I am
> >>> getting this error:
> >>>
> >>> ProvisionException: Unable to provision, see the following errors:
> >>>
> >>> 1) Error injecting constructor, java.lang.IllegalArgumentException:
> >>> requirement failed: Key store file certs/client.jks does not exist!
> >>> at
> >>> org.genivi.webserver.Authentication.LdapAuth.<init>(LdapAuth.scala:35)
> >>> at
> >> org.genivi.webserver.Authentication.LdapAuth.class(LdapAuth.scala:35)
> >>> while locating org.genivi.webserver.Authentication.LdapAuth
> >>>   for parameter 2 at
> >>>
> org.genivi.webserver.controllers.Application.<init>(Application.scala:29)
> >>> while locating org.genivi.webserver.controllers.Application
> >>>   for parameter 1 at router.Routes.<init>(Routes.scala:35)
> >>> while locating router.Routes
> >>> while locating play.api.inject.RoutesProvider
> >>> while locating play.api.routing.Router
> >>>
> >>> 1 error
> >>>
> >>> Any ideas? I am using the docs here:
> >>> http://genivi.github.io/rvi_sota_server/doc/building-installing.html.
> >>> I am running this on Ubuntu 16.04.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> *Nisha Kumar-Mayernik*
> >>> Software Developer
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *Jaguar Land Rover, 1419 NW 14th Ave, Portland, Oregon, 97209, USA*
> >>> *jaguar.com <http://jaguar.com/>  |  landrover.com
> >>> <http://landrover.com/>*
> >>>
> >>> Business Details:
> >>> Jaguar Land Rover Limited, Abbey Road, Whitley, Coventry CV3 4LF, UK
> >>> Registered in England Number: 1672070
> >>>
> >>> This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential information for a
> >>> specific individual and purpose.  The information is private and
> >>> privileged and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom
> >>> it is addressed.  If you are not the intended recipient, please e-mail
> >>> us immediately.  We apologize for any inconvenience caused but you are
> >>> hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or distribution or the
> >>> taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein
> >>> is strictly prohibited.
> >>>
> >>> This e-mail does not constitute an order for goods or services unless
> >>> accompanied by an official purchase order.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Arthur Taylor, ATS Advanced Telematic Systems GmbH
> >> Kantstrasse 162, 10623 Berlin
> >> Managing Directors: Dirk P?schl, Armin G. Schmidt
> >> Register Court: HRB 151501 B, Amtsgericht Charlottenburg
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> http://lists.genivi.org/pipermail/genivi-projects/attachments/20160525/6dd5e2ba/attachment.html
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > genivi-projects mailing list
> > genivi-projects at lists.genivi.org
> > https://lists.genivi.org/mailman/listinfo/genivi-projects
> >
> >
> > End of genivi-projects Digest, Vol 14, Issue 75
> > ***********************************************
>
>
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-- 
Jeremiah C. Foster
GENIVI COMMUNITY MANAGER

Pelagicore AB
Ekelundsgatan 4, 6tr, SE-411 18
Gothenburg, Sweden
M: +46 (0)73 093 0506
jeremiah.foster at pelagicore.com
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